Die Befragung ist abgeschlossen (siehe unten). Die Abstimmung ist eindeutig und wird im eBlockerOS 2.7 Release umgesetzt, das in Kürze erscheint.
The poll is closed (see below). The voting is clear and respected with the eBlockerOS 2.7 release due shortly.
(English version below / Englische Fassung unten)
Anders als im vergangenen Jahr ist die Spendenbereitschaft dieses Jahr leider zu gering, um die Betriebskosten zu decken. Daher planen wir den eBlocker Service eventuell einzuschränken und bestimmte Funktion nur noch für Spender zur Verfügung zu stellen. eBlockerOS selbst bleibt natürlich kostenfrei und Open Source.
Wie wir uns in Zukunft dazu aufstellen, soll jeder mitentscheiden. Deine Stimme zählt und Du kannst unter folgenden Varianten wählen:
- Tägliche Updates nur für Spender. Kostenfreie Updates nur einmal monatlich.
- Alle kurartierten und lizensierten Filter nur für Spender. Andere Nutzer müssen selbst für geeignete Filter z.B. gegen Malware sorgen.
- Alle neuen Features nur für Spender. Kostenfrei keine neuen Funktionen wie z.B. keine Personal Device Firewall, keine Remote Dashboards, keine Auto Trust App etc.
- Alle Funktionen und tägliche Updates wie bisher kostenlos für alle, jedoch Finanzierung über Werbung, „Affiliate Partner“, Datenverkauf
- Alles genau so weiter, wie bisher: „Pay as much as you can“-Spendenmodell. Ich spende gerne, denn den vollen eBlocker Schutz braucht jeder - auch wenn er keinen Beitrag leisten kann.
- eBlocker Projekt einstellen. Die eBlocker Geräte laufen weiter, neue Bedrohungen werden ohne Updates jedoch nicht mehr geblockt, die Geräte-Sicherheit ist damit mittelfristig gefährdet.
Die Befragung schließen wir Ende August und machen uns dann an die Umsetzung. Sobald die Implementierung im Herbst abgeschlossen ist, erhalten bisherige Spender, die mind. 50 € pa. gespendet haben, automatisch einen Lizenzschlüssel als Dankeschön.
Bitte beachte: Falls du eine „Lifetime-Lizenz“ der ehemaligen eBlocker GmbH hast, ist diese nicht für das Open Source Projekt gültig. Damit erhältst du zukünftig nur die Leistungen, wie andere Nutzer, die keine Spende geleistet haben.
Warum wir keinen Vorteil von „Lifetime-Lizenzen“ der ehemaligen GmbH haben, hatte unser Co-Gründer vor einiger Zeit in einem Newsletter erklärt.
Über den Ausgang der Befragung und den Status der Umsetzung berichten wir anschließend im Newsletter. Bitte sieh von Nachfragen ab, da wir diese personell leider nicht beantworten können.
Vielen Dank für dein Verständnis und deine Unterstützung!
(English Version / Englische Fassung)
Unlike last year, unfortunately donations this year are too low to cover the operating costs. Therefore we are planning to restrict the eBlocker service and make certain functions available for donors only. Of course eBlockerOS itself remains free of charge and open source.
How we position ourselves in future should be decided by all users. Your vote counts and you can choose between the following variants:
- Daily updates for donors only. Free updates only once a month.
- All curated and licensed filters for donors only. Other users must care for suitable filters themselves, e.g. against malware.
- All new features for donors only. Free of charge: no new features. For instance no personal device firewall, no remote dashboards, no auto trust app etc.
- All features and daily updates free for all as now, but funding via advertising, "affiliate partners", data sales, etc.
- Everything exactly as now: "Pay as much as you can" donation model. I like to donate, because the full eBlocker protection is needed by everyone - even if they can't contribute.
- Discontinue the eBlocker project. The eBlocker devices remain running, but without updates new threats will not be blocked anymore, so the device security is endangered in the mid-term.
We will close the survey end of August and then move on to implementation. As soon as the implementation is completed in autumn, previous donors who have donated at least 50 € pa. will automatically receive a license key as a thank you.
Please note: If you have a "lifetime license" of the former eBlocker GmbH, it is not valid for the Open Source project. With this license you will only get the same benefits as other users who did not make a donation.
We will report the outcome of the survey and the status of the implementation in future newsletters. Please refrain from asking questions, as we are unfortunately not able to answer them due to lack of personnel.
Thank you for your understanding and support!
eBlocker is Open Source and reached its present state trough the investments in the GmbH and the donations to the Open Source Project. Both types of funding can be considered as Venture Capital and should have no impact on future options.
For this future it is important that the idea of the eBlocker, including new options and updates remains alive and kicking. This should be true for all eBlocker users, donator or not. Given the fact that the project is running (nearly) aground now for a second time, the option “Pay as much as you can” is not a realistic option.
The eBlocker is a great idea but apparently is only viable when users pay a fee. With other words, eBlocker should go commercial (again), but this time with a strong and experienced partner. I hope such a partner can be found.
Rob
Both types of funding can be considered as Venture Capital
I disagree. A VC gets shares and influence in the company and has the goal to sell the company and his shares for making a profit.
A user donates to keep his privacy protected (same as buying a product/subscribing to a service). Maybe - if he understands our values and vision - even for charity, so other (poorer) users can benefit from eBlocker too. But that’s clearly no venture capital.
but this time with a strong and experienced partner.
I‘m not sure what you mean. Who should we target (examples of companies or clear characteristics)? Why would they partner with us (what’s their goal)? Would be great to know ahead, before we drive this path… 😉
Thanks for your valuable thoughts, Rob.
In both situations the funding was risc-capital without a commitment for future use of or advantage when using the product after the investment/donation was made. It seems not correct or even unjust when those who have not invested/donated would have no access to the service. On the other hand, those who are willing to pay a price, should have that right as long as they pay and the service is available.
To be targeted are companies active in this market with a track record, such as AVM GmbH (FRITZ!Box), Cisco Systems Inc. and other suppliers network components.
@robfranssen-fr
I fear you misinterpret the situation. eBlocker is not a business but a hobby project run by volunteers. For us the easiest is to drop this hobby, as we are all in well-paid full-time jobs.
We do not plan to turn eBlocker into a company again, hiring people, renting office space, finding investors/partners etc. Even in our wildest dreams we will surely not repeat history again.
Today, our goal is altruistic and for me it's personally very sad to read about the egoism of many users. "Turn eBlocker into a commercial model, then I'm willing to pay so I benefit, but I'm not willing to donate for others.", we often get as feedback. Well, I know this is capitalism, and we not gonna change the mindset of the people - unfortunately.
Regarding your partner suggestion: All these partners are looking for a company to work with. Where are the volunteers having spare time to address these partners, negotiate etc.? This is very time consuming, cost intensive (for legal attorneys etc) and whether this approach ever succeeds is highly questionable. We were on this track in the commercial past and talked to AVM etc. - but their interest is very different. So I highly doubt this path is feasible for us today.
Seriously, I'm happy to step back if someone else wants to continue the project and turn it into a business. Please move forward - and go drive "partnering with network suppliers" etc.
@andreas-vieringme-com Thanks so much for your words. I'd hope more people think and act like you do. You've made my day 😀 👍
@steffko @StrychnosNV Thanks for your contribution to the discussing. May I remind you that this is an English only forum. I kindly ask you to edit your post to get approval. Please use deepl.com in case of doubt. Sorry, but I'm just doing my duty.
Btw: The initial post is bi-lingual to make sure "German only" readers get the message clearly, but this does not change forum rules.
THX for your cooperation and understanding!
choose between the following variants:
just have a little comprehension challenge.
I want to select the variants 1-3 or are they each included ?
@joe @all
All options are individual and meant as "What's your preferred option".
We will be starting implementing the most voted option at the first place. In case this drives not enough cost coverage, we may combine second/third preferred restrictions in future.
In case of operating costs, to make this clear for everyone again, we are talking today about 4-5 TEUR/month.
Just for comparison with commercial GmbH times, we had operating costs of 100 TEUR/month (mainly due to staff salaries, office, marketing).
Hope this helps to make an informed decision. 😉
In total i paid € 574 for the eBlocker; € 274 for the lifetime use and € 300 for development.
There is a limit to the amount i want to keep paying for the development; one reason being that the continuity and amount of donations is an unknown variable and there is no information available about the cashflow of the project. On the other hand i'm happy to pay a reasonable annual licence fee for the use of eBlocker as long as it is available and i have a need for it.
If the development of eBlocker and its availability can't be continued in its actual scheme of funding (given the frequent requests for donations), i wander wether it will be long lived.
Option 1, preferred now by most, is IMHO no guarantee for continuity and continuity is exactly what (i gues) we both want in the first place.
Rob
unknown variable and there is no information available about the cashflow of the project
No, that is fully transparent. In case you've missed the message on the donation form, see my post above - and compare to the donation income bar (on top of each page). BTW: With the core team we even share the detailed financial reports - but for the public this might be "too much information".
With monthly expenses you also need monthly income ... actually quite simple.
Donations are not effective.
Donations are not effective.
@hardy Last year it worked out nicely: donations and costs were pretty even. So I dare to doubt your conclusion, not to say past shows you are wrong.
Also other donation based organizations (SOS children's village, for instance) show that a donation model works in general. It's more a question of reach and growth - and our reach is very limited to "no budget for marketing".
I rather conclude most people using Internet services are on a "free" track and don't understand the implications. Of course it doesn't hurt to pay with personal data at the first place.
But honoring a valuable privacy service with money is felt in the pocket. Sad, but it seems capitalism wins over altruism. (also see @Benne's post above).
THX!
Do you predict that each option has the same financial effect?
I can’t choose option six because this is entirely your decision, how much private time and cash you are willing to invest.
4 would mean I would switch EBlocker off.
5 is the reason why we are here.
i doubt the first three have the same financial effect but suppose you thought it through.
because I believe the filters are the essential factor this would have the strongest impact. It would take some time until people notice the difference so the impact on the donations would come later.
new features may be as effective but they anyhow are based on your efforts.
How much donation would it require to keep you moving? 1€/year and I get all updates or 10€/month?
Facebook earns round about 6€/victim per year.
this would be the minimum. Since you protect us against many others I would say minimum 10€/day.
sorry to read this. It is getting worse with privacy daily but people care less and less
and now existing law protects me.
ich kann nicht so viel essen wie ich kotzen kann
@robfranssen-fr
everything goes abo
everywhere.
i try my best to consider this as such. When others support the Red Cross, medecin sans frontiers and many others, I choose to donate to EBlocker.
because nothing less than democracy and freedom are at stake
How much donation would it require to keep you moving?
See above for today´s operating cost: https://eblocker.org/community/community-polls/financing-model-finanzierungsmodell/#post-4212
THX!
In case of operating costs, to make this clear for everyone again, we are talking today about 4-5 TEUR/month.
To put it in perspective; how many peoples are using the eBlocker?
My opinion: What is the effect of choice 1? No significant additional income for eBlocker. What is the effect of choice 2? No significant additional income for eBlocker. What is the effect of choice 3? Additional income for eBlockers can be expected. What is the effect of choice 4? That would reduce the eBlocker to absurdity. What is the effect of choice 5? The end for eBlocker would be inevitable very quickly. What is the effect of choice 6? It is imperative to avoid this. Open to option no. 7? For every update of the operating system (not filters) an amount of € 15 .-- (or only € 5 .-- or € 10 .--) from each user, and for me: in addition to my monthly donation.
how many peoples are using the eBlocker?
@newbie We seriously have zero knowledge about our user base. BUT technically we see ~3,000 different IPs are requesting updates daily.
Unfortunately this number does not reflect all users as manual updates as well as VPN „IP consolidation“ (several users behind oneVPN IP) are not counted correctly, and the IP-estimate is (also technically) quite questionable. This was discussed some time ago in a supporter‘s meeting, but I‘m not sure about the outcome as I wasn‘t present.
Btw: Since we’ve started the project ~20 month ago, about 1,300 people have donated in total, that‘s for sure. So not even half (or probably even less) users have donated at all - most only once. Today only 89 user donate recurringly ☹️
For example the math for Rob is 300 € / 20 month = 15 € per month the project has received. He‘s a big spender… 😁👍
THX!
If i understand you correct, there are some 3.000 eBlockers active out there. Having said that and taking into account that expenses are 4-5 TEUR/month, an annual payment of € 36 per eBlocker-owner (€ 108.000/year or € 9.000/month) would solve the problem. And i don’t mind whether you call it licence-fee or donation 😏
Or is this to simple?
annual payment of € 36 per eBlocker-owner (€ 108.000/year or € 9.000/month) would solve the problem
Yes, I‘d guess so, too. But keep in mind not all users are willing and able to pay 3 € per month as the Internet is „free“ - including a compromised privacy on top 😉
THX!
as the Internet is „free“
If they can pay the monthly fee for their ISP, put money aside for a new desktop-, laptop- and/or handheld-computer every few years and buy apps in the Apple- or Androit-AppStore, then € 3 per month is heavy indeed... Only sunshine is free; on the internet nothing is really free!
For € 36 per year i would signup right away and choose for options 1 ánd 3, getting all updates and new features as long as i pay the money due. Unfortunately, i could make only one single choice.
Those users who are not willing to pay, will convert to the real faith sooner or later.
How about a kind of subscription model?
I´m thinking of a kind of subscription in the form of three different payment options for example:
1. small budget subscription - a subscription that´s cheap and costs less for the small wallet
2. standard-subscription - normal subscription that covers the required costs
3. Soli-Subscription - subscription that costs a little bit more to get the cheapest supscription
I think that might be a viable path for many and would be a good compromise for both sides.
Thanks very much everyone for the fruitful discussion here. Let me (the co-founder of eBlocker) sum up the status quickly:
Discussion is continued here:
https://eblocker.org/community/main-forum/follow-up-discussion-on-financing-eblocker/#
Please read on…
THX!
PS: As forum admin I took the chance to add this post as I find the discussion important.